Today is a day that will live in infamy, as one of the cultural touchstones of the past several years has been taken from us. Join us in memorializing the tweets that have shaped our lives over the past few years. In addition, we break down shitty dudes in tech, discuss the necessity of tech unionization, summarize potential professional wrestling antifa, and much more.
Thanks for your support by listening to our inaugural episode!
Follow the pod @fsckdpod!
Jay is @jaydestro, Kat is @dixie3flatline, and Austin is @austinlparker.
If you want to email us, info at fsckdpod.com.
The audio will be better next time, probably.
Jay Gordon: the things you get to do when you're online a lot is you get to talk to people, you get to meet people, and then you end up finding out that you have a certain amount of common interests that make you want to be a, a mutual amount of asshole. And, and I think that's why we kind of wanted to start to do this.
So, um, just as a. A thing to say before we actually introduce [00:01:00] ourselves. Um, the three of us were for tech companies, but what we talk about on this podcast has zero to do with the companies we've worked for. If you want to know who they are, You can look at our Twitter profiles, but none of the comments or statements we make has anything to do with them.
So anyway, uh, my name's Jay Gordon, um, you can find me on Twitter at Jay Destro and I wanna introduce you to the rest of my compadres for this silly fucking thing we're going to do. Go ahead,
Kat Cosgrove: Austin. You're number two on the video thing you go fam
Austin Parker: I'm Austin Parker. I'm at Austin L. Parker. Cause I'm boring as shit.
Um, Retweets are not endorsements
Kat Cosgrove: damn brief. Hey,
Austin Parker: I, if there is one thing that, uh, whole binds together, modern society, it is that retweets are not endorsements.
Kat Cosgrove: Yeah. Actually I wonder why people like put that in their profile. Cause I thought that was like a given on the internet, but whatever. [00:02:00] Uh, my name is Kat Cosgrave on Twitter.
I am Dixie three flatline, uh, which is. A much nerdier than I expected reference to a book. I really like, and nobody ever gets it. So now I'm like super fucking insecure about my Twitter handle, but, uh, that's where we're at with that I got on Twitter. It was my job. And now I'm addicted,
Jay Gordon: you know, it's, it's fucking weird.
And, and, and so the Twitter addiction is one of the things that I think we can talk about. Eventually. That's a, that's a great part of starting this, but I want to give us a moment to actually talk about it. Why we're doing this and who we are and why we w we have any authority to talk about anything that we're, we're, we're going to talk about.
And the only thing I can say, and the reason why I think we're doing this is that, um, we're in a really interesting time in both technology and in, uh, the world of [00:03:00] politics. And I think that, uh, from the people that I've communicated with on Twitter, Regularly, and then are also, I've worked with as peers, you know, you get lucky, you meet some people that.
It makes some sense. And I think, you know, cat Austin, you, you kind of make some sense to me. And I thought that this would be fun, um, to, to not be so serious about the bullshit that we work with all the time or
Austin Parker: the world in front of us.
Kat Cosgrove: We all cyber the same people.
Austin Parker: We do
Kat Cosgrove: people on Twitter. We
Jay Gordon: don't just fucking eat near a tendon.
It's one giant fuck Neera, Tanden.
Austin Parker: And also .
Jay Gordon: Oh, we know how to Esther Sage, like we don't have to create a stage keys and we don't like Neera Tanden it's
Austin Parker: so, hi, I'm only doing this because, you know, unfortunately, uh, COVID-19 has, has put a unfortunate end to, you know, being able to go on a plane [00:04:00] and have someone else pay for my drinks and exotic locales.
So, um, It is it's, it's really the biggest problem facing our industry. Um, right now I think,
Kat Cosgrove: yeah, I paid
Jay Gordon: for my own things. Yeah. You know what, um, it's kind of, well, I pay for a lot of my own drinks now.
Austin Parker: I don't get to two
Jay Gordon: do as much as I used to. I know why you're laughing. It's for something that. Coming up next, but, uh, I don't get to drink as much as I got to do before on other people's dime.
I don't get to see a lot of the great people that I did before. And I think it's indicative of the fact that like, um, we, we, I work in developer relations and, uh, you both do too, right? Yeah. And, and so for people who don't know, we work for tech companies and developer relations is mostly about just enabling people.
It's about teaching them like this [00:05:00] shit that you do. Um, like I, it feels like you're kind of like a technology kind of like, I don't know, I don't want to see something creepy because it's like, you kinda like, Hey, you really need to like, learn how to use this
Austin Parker: technology CAD, like priest.
Kat Cosgrove: No, no, no pungens and dragons.
Right? We're Bard's
Austin Parker: but
Kat Cosgrove: for like, Tech products and like, like
Austin Parker: bards for money.
Kat Cosgrove: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, ultimately
Austin Parker: mercenary,
Jay Gordon: but I like to call myself like R2D2 I'm along for the ride. You know what I mean? Like I got no idea, like how you're going to friggin blow up like the death star. But my job is to at least give you some maps.
You figure this shit out from there, but I'm just going to give you maps spoke anyway. Uh, you know, today was an interesting day for me. And it really led me into the idea that I want to share something with everybody. And before we do [00:06:00] that, I just want to take a musical interest.
shoes. So today, Oh man. Uh,
Austin Parker: we'll we'll we'll I don't know.
Jay Gordon: We'll we'll keep it low.
Austin Parker: Yeah. So
Jay Gordon: anyway, the reason why I'm playing Whitney Houston,
Austin Parker: um,
Jay Gordon: it's, it's, it's a tough day for me, for, for some of you who are extremely online, you may know of a tweet that came to the world in a way that not a lot of tweets have.
It was a thing I really think was born
Austin Parker: of pain
Jay Gordon: of suffering, a strategic, um, something I'm not really sure. But it became one of the greatest tweets I've ever seen. And so I want to just speak it for you all, if you don't want, because it's, it's left this [00:07:00] earth. It is no more, it has been deleted. And because of that, I just wanted to give this a moment.
So here we go. It's from Louise mench who is verified my sources say the death penalty. For espionage being considered for at Stephen K Bannon. I am pro life and I take no pleasure. You're recording this. So I thought about this treat for, for quite a fucking long time.
Austin Parker: Okay. I got it. Okay. The best part, like it's just the immediate right.
You get to, I am pro life.
That is what this hinges on
fucking a bang out of the gate.
Jay Gordon: She's just like, you know what? Fuck it. We're like mask off. I don't
Kat Cosgrove: have [00:08:00] any real proof of
Jay Gordon: any goddamn thing at all. And it doesn't matter. Like I just going to go over
Austin Parker: again
Jay Gordon: and it doesn't
Kat Cosgrove: one tweet. It embodies the concept of neat,
Austin Parker: like
Kat Cosgrove: sent that shit out into the world.
Jay Gordon: Yeah. She made a point to let us all know that
Austin Parker: her shit was all fucked up
Jay Gordon: and that there's nothing we could do about it. Her literally her shit was so fucked out. Uh, and, and she came up with some idea,
Austin Parker: uh,
Jay Gordon: that, that it made sense that she had to share it.
Austin Parker: It is, this is like, this is basically like Q shit, right?
Like, this is, this is you and I shit. Right. But from the other side where it's like, Oh, they're
Jay Gordon: still alive.
Kat Cosgrove: I know we even heard from, uh, you know, [00:09:00] the human personification of skin disease in like ears, but he is in fact still alive
Austin Parker: people
Kat Cosgrove: secretly fucking.
Austin Parker: Okay. And also what was the data? Well, the data and this is like July, 2017.
Yeah. And I know, and I know that like 2017 might as well have been like a hundred years ago
Kat Cosgrove: simultaneously feels like it was yesterday and a hundred years ago.
Austin Parker: Yeah.
Jay Gordon: it. So the thing that really made me happy about this, and so I'm going to bring it up for everybody. Is that, so the reason why I found out about this is so I randomly was on another thread and I don't even remember it, but I actually saw Louise mensch on the something, and I thought it was really funny.
And, um, and so at some point, She, uh, just like goes law. And I said to [00:10:00] her like, Hey, Louise wins the trial and she didn't respond. And I was just curious, I hadn't seen the tweet in a little while. And so I went to go look for the link and I saw it was deleted and, and. To me, this is so here's the, the way I, I said it because I'm, I'm, I'm a real fucking weirdo and I obsessed about stupid, but stuff that, you know, we have some strange moments on, on Twitter that really kind of.
Make you think about the time and the date and the period we're at and the Louise mensch 2017 tweet really kind of persona FI's this fucking mania that came out of like wild liberals and them running to anybody that could tell them something the
Austin Parker: good.
[00:11:00] Jay Gordon: Exactly fucking what's his name? He blocked me ages ago with his game theory.
Bullshit. I remember he called
Austin Parker: that the aprons and apron. Is that David summons?
Jay Gordon: No, no, it's some other guy, but I remember he called like Bernie Sanders, like a flat Lander. He's like, you're a Brooklyn flat lender that came to Vermont as a carpetbagger. What the fuck? What's his name? Eric. Something. Wow.
What is that guy's name?
Austin Parker: I think, I think it is that they heard
Jay Gordon: something. Oh
Austin Parker: yeah. It's that whole thing, right? Like.
Jay Gordon: And so that's like the weird thing. And so she responded to me eventually, which was like amazing to me. Cause she takes no pleasure responding to me. I'm sure
Austin Parker: she is pro-life she is pro-life
Kat Cosgrove: Madison.
Jay Gordon: And so what she does is she tells me that like, [00:12:00] I said she deleted the band and tweet. And my implication is she did it intentionally. I did not. And I never deleted that tweet and had no reason to delete it. And so she wit she's claiming she used some auto tweet, the leader
Kat Cosgrove: mammoth.
Jay Gordon: Yeah. Yeah.
So, so she's like, I use some tweet the leader, and so I I'm like, alright, so can you ask them to get it back? And so I added like is Jack who will never look at anything is they're too busy doing whatever weirdos is. So I just asked her, could you tweet it again? It's gone. So just tweet it again. Now there's this whole like group of people who are just sending her, like,
Kat Cosgrove: could you please please
Jay Gordon: tweet it again?
Austin Parker: You know, none of this would be a problem. If Twitter was on the blockchain,
Kat Cosgrove: it's true. You know, more things need the blockchain. You're right. Can, can we get. A tech bro [00:13:00] on here real quick. Hold on, let me, if I just tweet something, like if you
Austin Parker: tweet
Kat Cosgrove: that incorrect about blockchain, I can get like 30 or 40 of them.
Cause I'm a woman and that's like real.
Jay Gordon: Yeah. Yeah. That's Sophie. And so if you're a woman with a selfie, then whatever you say, there's going to be like 16 dudes that are going to tell you, this is really funny. We'll get into why this is super fucking relevant for this week. Yeah. You know, it's but, um, it's just amazing.
Like I've noticed one thing, cat that if, if women tech people, the, especially the women tech people that have, uh, some sort of like avatar that actually is safe. Like their face
Kat Cosgrove: that
Jay Gordon: represents that they have a human female form. The fucking acts are always wild is shit.
Kat Cosgrove: And actually like my old at my old avatar was a picture of me wearing like a slinky super low cut black dress at like new [00:14:00] year's Eve or something last year.
But I had photo-shopped the, uh, the doom guy helmet over my head, when do maternal.
Austin Parker: I was like,
Jay Gordon: wonderful.
Kat Cosgrove: For some reason people like they didn't see my tits, which were like very much, uh, in frame, they just saw the like doom guy helmet and assumed I was a man, even though I had,
Jay Gordon: Hey, doom tits
Austin Parker: to a whole new fucking layer.
Kat Cosgrove: It was very, it was
Jay Gordon: very thin at the conference hotel
Kat Cosgrove: for, and called me doom, Ted. So I don't think I would be offended. I think I, I, I would just take it.
Austin Parker: Yeah. Take the
Jay Gordon: compliment. Yeah.
Austin Parker: It's like, yeah, I'm going to listen to electric
Jay Gordon: wizard and then put on this low cut top short
Austin Parker: reimagining do maternal where the doom guy is actually like the doom girl [00:15:00] and just.
Kat Cosgrove: I cosplay pretty heavily and I will dress up as sexy doom guy. I'll do it.
Austin Parker: I think the next time we have like an impersonal, we'll
Jay Gordon: discuss this in another, another time about what we want cat to dress up that has to do extreme battle. She can do like, what's her name? Liz Buckingham from electric wizard.
You can eat.
Austin Parker: Right. So I do want to say while we're on the topic of tweets of all time tweets. Yeah, I would be completely fucking remiss to have this conversation go without mentioning that this is the first birth. This is the anniversary of 30 to 50 50,
Kat Cosgrove: you know what, and God bless that tweet.
Jay Gordon: You know, I think about, I think about tweets that really make me wish that we were in a world that really represented.
Much more with Twitter was like, I [00:16:00] want to see what this dude was like, the fact that he was asking how to murder, murder, feral Hawks remains to me, one of the more incredible parts of it about, uh, life. Like you can imagine that things happen in this world. I mean the deep South,
Kat Cosgrove: they, they, they do breed prolifically and they are extremely aggressive.
Austin Parker: was
Kat Cosgrove: community and this was not an issue for us.
Jay Gordon: So look at this, look at this thing.
Austin Parker: Definitely not. Oh yeah.
Jay Gordon: We're looking at a feral hall right now and it's it's face looks to be bleeding from attacking, like anything.
Kat Cosgrove: Oh, yeah, they're super fucking meme, but like, I don't know anybody that needs an AK 47 because within minutes their children will be set upon by 30 to 50, [00:17:00] specifically 30
Austin Parker: to 50, I think.
So I think when you, when you're talking about like tweets, right, you're talking about tweets that represent a moment in time. The thing that always sticks with you is specificity, right? The thing that sticks with you about, uh, the mench tweet is like the specificity of I am pro life.
Jay Gordon: Right?
Austin Parker: The thing that sticks with you about 30 to 50 feral hogs is that it's 30 to 50.
It's not 29 and it's not 51 30, it's 30 to 50. And that, that specificity I think is where. Like that's the, the, the bleeding heart of,
Jay Gordon: you know,
Austin Parker: these, I don't
Jay Gordon: even call them. Right.
Kat Cosgrove: Isn't that
Jay Gordon: what makes Twitter so incredible times is that there are these, and I think this is why
Austin Parker: I love the Louise
Jay Gordon: moments so much is that we have [00:18:00] like these few Twitter moments.
We're the weird blends into the mainstream. So that Kevin Smith like Brown, his woman's like hold. Yeah. Like there's that one we have, look, we've got that shit. And we stick with that because we know as a, like a group we live through that fucking weirdness, um, Like the ban in tweet the 30 to 50, or almost any bullshit that like Gwen's night or tweets, like we have these moments.
Austin Parker: Yeah. This is why this is why Twitter shouldn't have edit. This is the one thing. It shouldn't, it shouldn't.
Kat Cosgrove: I think it boils down to people, forget that everyone else can see their fucking tweets. They forget that, that man,
Jay Gordon: it really brings us to like what I want to have the appropriate, the serious [00:19:00] bullshit I wanted to talk about today. Um, it is like everybody can see your tweets and, um, there was a woman I'll be honest with you that we saw her tweets.
Um, I don't want to say her name because it's not necessary. And I don't want to talk about what she posted, but it was of some serious abuse by a man named Brett McGowan that works at a big company no more, but he was part of the fire, part of the community, the community that we were all a part of in technology.
And I wanted to talk about just like how, the bigger idea of, of people like this in our art. Not just technology, but I guess our groups that we spend time with and, and we don't recognize it. And we, we find out too late. Um, and, and so I can't speak to how a woman would feel about the situation that this person was put in, but the photographs of her pretty [00:20:00] much beaten the shit out of said everything I needed to know.
Kat Cosgrove: There was no questioning it and like the replies to like the response to this woman, um, very, very graphically and publicly outing. Her abuser was a lot of people in our industry. And, uh, with our specific titles publicly saying that they were no longer going to speak at a conference or engage with any companies that give this man or any man like him, a platform.
Jay Gordon: the words. The words I said specifically, I'm sorry.
Kat Cosgrove: Talk over you.
Jay Gordon: Is that he's not welcome. Yeah.
Kat Cosgrove: Yeah. He's not.
Jay Gordon: And I think this is the way you need to talk about abusers in communities, whether it's it's us in technology. If it's anything with like, you know, we've, we've heard about this and I, and I hate to go back to online bullshit, but let's [00:21:00] talk about like Lana DOE Raytheon.
And that like weird DSA moment of finding out like this weird DSA person was going into communities and being part of like telling people like you, you can, I'm part of what you do, and then secretly using their platform to abuse someone else somehow or another.
Austin Parker: Go on.
Jay Gordon: No, I'm just going to say what it really comes down to is like, when you hear about it, you feel like shit, you feel like absolute shit. You didn't know about it already. You feel so fucking guilty. You didn't do anything about it. And, and the only thing you really can do at this point is react and respond.
And I think that as a community that we're in. Because we develop a relations for the people who don't know [00:22:00] what the fuck we're talking about. It's very, very small all group of us. And in this guy, Brett was, was based there New York city. And let me tell you, you won't talk about small communities, big city, but you work in tech, you know, everybody.
Hey, everybody, everybody.
Kat Cosgrove: I haven't met either. Uh, I haven't met most of the industry because I got hired like five months before the lockdown, but fucking hall.
Austin Parker: Well, look, I'm the guy whose entire personal brand turned into be turned into the I'm a crossing guy. So that's true.
Jay Gordon: I'm like the fucking weird Twitter guy who ended up working at Microsoft.
Austin Parker: Perspective.
Jay Gordon: I mean that there there's no other way of putting it, like, and I think it's cool that like some of us, we don't have traditional ways of getting into the things we do. We get to enjoy what it is we do. And we also meet people who have like these [00:23:00] strange interests that match ours. And I think that's, that's really interesting.
So that back to this fucko,
Austin Parker: um,
Jay Gordon: yeah. Who doesn't meet our interests. And so the reason why I thought it was so interesting to talk about it was, was not just his initial like outing because you saw how bad of an abuser this person was. And if you look up his name, um, there's been some stories on online and you could look it up on Twitter.
Uh, but one of the things you saw that this person did, and this is one of the things, it was like the most fucked up to me. Is he tried to buy her off.
Austin Parker: Yeah. And I thought about that.
Jay Gordon: And the reason I thought about that is people in technology positions are, are, have this privilege of, of money. There's no other way of putting it.
You work in tech in 2020, especially right now, when the world's fucked [00:24:00] up, you, you have money. So for this man to leverage his. Job. And I'm not going to say where he works. It's not worth saying, but to try to leverage because he doesn't work there anymore.
Austin Parker: Well, let's, let's also not discount that, uh, the place where this person and worked fairly long, long, and well, they didn't take action, but there's also a fairly long and well document public history of various people in leadership roles there, uh, getting into some shit let's say, and yeah.
Either not suffering consequences or paying people off or having things settled on under the table.
Kat Cosgrove: It's a cultural problem. It's a problem in the industry.
Austin Parker: Yeah. It's not just there.
Kat Cosgrove: Yeah.
Jay Gordon: And I think if you look at Liz Fong Jones, and if you want to know more about exactly the details of what people like us are talking about without us digging a fucking huge ditch for us to jump [00:25:00] into, because we want to kind of stay on topic.
Austin Parker: Um,
Jay Gordon: Liz Fong Jones, I think is probably one of the most prolific about some of the most difficult things that she went through, uh, in some of the, the weird ways that that company handles, uh, abuse, abusers and the public relations. So she's out.
Austin Parker: She's great. So cool. We work with her a lot. She's cool.
Jay Gordon: Liz.
And I, um, worked on DevOps days, New York city this past year. Um, we've, we've had some, uh, things where Liz has spoken at events that I've I've put on. Uh, I can say that Liz Fong Jones and, um, and, and the talk that she did with Emily gorinsky about ethical technology remains some of the most important stuff, um, in tech.
That has a greater relation to the world around us that, that [00:26:00] I know of.
Austin Parker: Yeah.
Jay Gordon: So anyhow
Kat Cosgrove: was powerful. Uh, I want to say something on the Brett thing.
Austin Parker: Yeah.
Kat Cosgrove: Go for the response from the community. You might, you might expect the response from the community to be overwhelmingly in support of, uh, the victim. Uh, but it wasn't.
And a lot of people, uh, responded to. Not just women, but largely women saying that they would no longer speak at conferences that, uh, gave him or people like him, a stage by, um, shitting all over them. And I bought a bunch of like, what a furry like, well, what go and they've reformed. Let me
Jay Gordon: it. Fuck. They did that to me too.
It was gross.
Kat Cosgrove: Shit. Super fucking gross. And like, Let me be clear as the only woman on this call. Uh, we're not under any [00:27:00] obligation at all, to give a stage to anyone who's ever beat the shit out of a woman. Cause I can't go to a conference without getting hit on. I flat out can't and I, nah, dog I'm, I'm lucky that I'm loud and mean, but a lot of women are not.
And just take that shit and roll over and it's.
Austin Parker: So I think, yeah, the interesting part about this is that one of the things I see come up a lot is like this idea of people that are like how to say it. Like, there's a lot of people that are like, obviously shitbags, right? And, but there's also a lot of people that I think, and this is maybe a, a persistent problem with the idea of.
The left and I didn't even get below it. Like, there's the big question, like to slightly diverge, like Ian Coldwater was feeding you this week about, you know, like what, [00:28:00] you know, they put in so much time on, um, on talks and, and there's a lot of people that are, you know, not straight white dudes, right? Like, or even queer white dudes.
And I think the thing that I. Consider the D the splitting point here is, do we want a world where everyone can have the, can be as mediocre as white dudes are today? Or are we trying to like elevate the bar? And I think that's one of the problems that we get to when we get into this sort of discourse about, um, Bigger things.
I mean, putting aside the people that are just like, come on, there's a fucking police report. There's pictures like dudes, obviously. Right? This was a very clear, like. Like this one, I saw it and I'm like, Oh fuck
Jay Gordon: people sides.
Austin Parker: It's like you don't. But in this case you really don't because there's fucking evidence.
Yeah. But I think in a bigger picture. Yeah,
Jay Gordon: John, good [00:29:00] Lord
Austin Parker: that I think hurts us. And the reason
Jay Gordon: Uh, Ian miles Chong stole grey of, of, and, uh, what's his name? Tucker calls. And the picture of I'm scared of women from that. And the reason is it has everything to do. What you're saying is that most of these people who like have these reply guy actions. And so it's one of the reasons I want to talk about is that they, they, they are scared of women.
Austin Parker: married to women because they
Jay Gordon: already dance.
Austin Parker: Yeah, but they perceive that they perceive that things are changing. They don't know how to react to it. And I think there's this, uh, extremely fucking strong bias towards like you don't, people don't want to be wrong in public. Right.
Kat Cosgrove: Don't want to be
Austin Parker: doing things that people don't want to get dragged in public people.
The only pedal.
Jay Gordon: Why do [00:30:00] European guys and up, sorry to say, but why is it always the European
Austin Parker: guys ever an office episode? They like the mirror mores, right?
Jay Gordon: You say the European guys are always the first guy to hear both sides. Every mother fucking time. I gotta be honest with you. I ran into this one, dude.
Who is like from like the Netherlands. And I was just like, as soon as I saw it, I was like, this is gonna suck. He's going to have every dumb fucking thing in the world to say. And he did. And it was all about like, you know, what about someone who's accused falsely? And I'm like, you know,
Kat Cosgrove: I don't know if I, I didn't take his like, nationality into account, but I saw that guy and, uh,
Austin Parker: Well,
Kat Cosgrove: but this is the problem.
Jay Gordon: I feel like I just get it from people in Europe and maybe it's because they don't have a perception of the stuff in the United States that we deal with
[00:31:00] Austin Parker: is the
Jay Gordon: ingrained biases
Austin Parker: that are part of our
Jay Gordon: fabric of our society. That injustice that is, is literally a part of our, our, our foundation. We are
Austin Parker: founded on.
Kat Cosgrove: I, uh, I saw that dude and I didn't, I didn't consider his nationality at, at all. I don't, I don't look at people's Twitter profiles before I start like keyboard worrying some mean shit at them. Uh, cause I'm, I'm lazy. I'm not going to, you said something shitty. I'm going to take it at face value, you know, but, um, I, I feel like.
Dude's in general. I don't know if this is like worse with Europeans, but the, what if it was a false idea? He's Asian thing comes up a lot. And in this case, there's, there's no argument that it was a false accusation because there are pictures and videos and police reports. There's, there's no argument that it was a false, it was not, there's no way, [00:32:00] but less than.
Like an outrageously small number of reports of like rape or sexual violence or domestic assault against women are false reports. I mean, it is, I will have to double check the numbers, but it is like 3%.
Austin Parker: It is a small,
Kat Cosgrove: yeah, it is. Yeah. Almost statistically irrelevant how small that number is. So just, just stop making that argument.
It always makes you look like a Dick. It's like making the argument of, uh, you're you're 30 and you've been you're you're into a 16 year old and somebody calls you a pedophile and you respond with, uh, technically it's hemophilia. Okay, dude. But,
Jay Gordon: Oh,
Kat Cosgrove: so you can't like it, it doesn't, you look like a Dick, no matter what, like you, you just sound like an asshole.
Who's looking for like, The statistical version of a weasel word to justify your [00:33:00] shittiness. So just, just stop, fucking making that argument for Christ's sake. Like,
Austin Parker: and I don't want to fucking be lectured by people. Who's like cultural sees like cultural certificates and legs warts, Pete, right? Like where they do the fucking black face Santa Claus
Jay Gordon: shit.
Kat Cosgrove: Arguably that's
Jay Gordon: all the British. Okay. And so I brought up something,
Austin Parker: I brought up something for
Jay Gordon: us to look at that really was the culmination of dudes responding to women on the internet. Like I think that this, this series of things that, that they came from it to me was, was really wild as to I saw this dude, um, respond to a person I work with.
Um, and it was really, really. Wild. And, um, th th the thing was essentially a guy who, who told a woman who said, I'm not comfortable [00:34:00] going to conferences with men who abused women heroes responded immediately with whatever about, you know, people who are falsely accused and in, and so at one point I asked this guy, Do you know, this was in response to a woman who got the shit beat out of her.
And he said, no,
Kat Cosgrove: it's like,
Jay Gordon: and, and that's, it's just like, it's so much what fucking drives me crazy.
Kat Cosgrove: I don't know what it is about these reply guys, but they have some kind of. Ignore trouble drive. When a woman says something to immediately like take their foot and jam it in their fucking mouth and say some dumb shit.
I don't, what, what is it? What is it? I like,
[00:35:00] Jay Gordon: it's a strange need to be heard by women that are unattainable.
Kat Cosgrove: Maybe they should just try, like, not being.
Jay Gordon: And it's always,
Austin Parker: you know,
Jay Gordon: it's always like married with two Baba, happily Christian Catholic. It's like, Oh, it's so easy to see the profile every single time.
And when it's always like a both sides and I'm sorry, Europeans, I don't mean to be. Pick on you, but it always tends to be the same way that like, whenever some person says some turfy shit, you know, they're from England. It's just like, you know, it it's going to be the
Kat Cosgrove: thing. 80% of the turfy shit.
Austin Parker: Yeah.
They could also be American.
Kat Cosgrove: Yeah. They could also be American. I have,
Austin Parker: I don't want to like sit here and say like, Oh, it's only the fucking English people. I think that the, I mean, because here's my take. Like, if you were honest about it, then you're probably gonna see the same incidence of this, these sort of attitudes among Americans, but [00:36:00] Americans are smart enough to know, especially Americans.
Sure. Because they're like, Oh no, of course people are going to be looking at my Twitter profile and they're scared of, you know, the, their words having consequences. But for the most part. I mean, I think, I think to externalize this a little bit, I guess, of their day, like, uh, any woman that goes to a tech conference is braver than
Jay Gordon: any cop.
Kat Cosgrove: Well, thank you.
Austin Parker: It's true. Right? Like most dudes don't understand,
Jay Gordon: um,
Austin Parker: what it's like. And I think that the question that we have to answer.
Jay Gordon: Like you can sure. Start with most Jews don't understand and then, but
Austin Parker: I buy, you could, but I think the important thing is, is like, it is kind of incumbent on the left or on the idea of like a, like one of the pro [00:37:00] I got problems with one of the.
Critiques. I have of a lot of the, the idea of the modern left is this idea that justice is just me. Justice means rebuilding the current world, but you've, you know, uh, gender, fuck that. Right? Like the hierarchy or more women prison guards, shit.
Jay Gordon: Love me. Some maple cocaine, baby.
Kat Cosgrove: Dude, I just want fully automated gay space, communism.
Austin Parker: Same. But I think it's, I think that one of the what's incumbent on us is maybe to be better about presenting, like an idea, you know, a concrete of a better world, rather than just being scolds. And this is, you know, the part where I get yelled at by people on the internet, but. I, you know, in the back of my head, I'm counting, like I'm counting in my head like, Oh, how many times of like Jay and I talked over cat, right.
[00:38:00] And the sort of shit that you do implicitly as someone that is aware of all these systemic injustices, but at the flip side, I'm just like, we're three people like trying to fucking shit post in a podcast about politics and about the world around us. Like, I don't know if I'm at, you know, someone could say like, Oh, you're oppressing her.
And I'm like, well, sure. Maybe that's how I've been socialized. Right. Like other than social,
Jay Gordon: I think, I just don't understand how to do one, like quad line things without stopping and like, It's
Austin Parker: like, it's like, right. Like I think there's the, there are two, not necessarily two paths, but there are I, there are split ideas.
He is here. What does this look like? Like what does a just world look like?
Kat Cosgrove: To be, to be clear if one of you talks over me in a way that I [00:39:00] find, uh, rude or disrespectful, fuck you, dude.
Jay Gordon: You, you, you will fuck me up and, and, and both verbal or at some point a physical way. And I'm, I'm both. I'm intrigued and, and fearful.
So, um, I will take that, uh, exactly the way I need to. And I hope you're not
Kat Cosgrove: my term. Uh, but you know, that's not, that's not truthful. Charming
Jay Gordon: is shit, as you are.
Austin Parker: Sure. There's a lot of women that that's not the case for. Right? Yeah.
Kat Cosgrove: We absolutely women are socialized to just kind of like roll over and be more meek and we try to be.
We try to please everyone, because it's dangerous not to. It's why, like, if you're hitting on a woman, on a bar at a bar, she might like verbally sound into it, but her, her body language and the way she [00:40:00] says things indicates that she's kind of just saying it to say it it's because we've been socialized to do that for safety.
Uh, I just, uh, I, I don't know. My, my dad did not raise me that way. But, uh, lots of women were raised that way. So it's very easy for me to talk over Austin or Jay if I have to, but it's not, not that way for most women.
See, now they're talking about,
Jay Gordon: I was saying just the way I was raised. I was just like, is it sad that my. Dad raised me the wave like Tony soprano raised ha. She was like, don't do, as I do just
Austin Parker: counting, I was counting the fucking seconds until the first Sopranos reference 40 minutes.
Jay Gordon: But it's,
Austin Parker: so we
Jay Gordon: live in a world, we live in a world where don't do, as I do just watch along and, and, and [00:41:00] just deal with it.
And like, that's a Tony soprano way of looking at it. And I feel like that's the way that a lot of people, a lot of men in technology act is like, don't, don't pay attention to what I'm doing. Just, just do it. I'm doing it. Do you?
Austin Parker: Well, there was, I say, Don, as I do right. Look,
Kat Cosgrove: I had an enormous crush on poly walnuts when I was a kid.
And I don't know what that says about me as an adult, but I thought he was so hot when I was a teenager. Like I, I was very into it. My husband's hair has started going great just on the sides too. And I'm really excited.
Austin Parker: I feel like there's a lesson here or the lesson? No, there's not a lesson here, but I am horny. That's one lesson. I was just gonna say, Paulie walnuts has got the grays
Jay Gordon: on the side. So Paulie walnuts, apparently maze, cat horny. So congratulations. Wayne
Austin Parker: progress path, Jay. [00:42:00] Haven't
Jay Gordon: haven't bleached in wings like Paulie, walnuts, get you
Kat Cosgrove: all the way there.
Oh my God. What's your lesson.
Austin Parker: My lesson was less a lesson and more like an opportunity to pivot, to talk about wrestling. Um, yo,
Jay Gordon: did you see that underground thing at all last night? And
Austin Parker: I don't really know where I was going with this,
Jay Gordon: so I don't watch wrestling anymore, but I'm gonna,
Austin Parker: I'm gonna. I'm going to disclose EDW.
Jay Gordon: No, I was just going to disclose when I was about 19. I did a radio show on college radio about professional wrestling with my best friend at the time. And, um, I stopped watching pro wrestling around 1999 or 2000. Um, but I'd
Austin Parker: still
Jay Gordon: like to hear what's going on. And so I saw that shit from last night and.
[00:43:00] I've got no fucking clue. What was that?
Kat Cosgrove: What's the heart. Gosh, y'all I haven't watched wrestling since I was a kid. Cause, uh, I'm from Tennessee. Uh I'm from outside of Memphis, but Kane is the mayor of Knoxville.
Austin Parker: I mean, he's,
Kat Cosgrove: he's like an enormous piece of shit. But, uh, yeah, but also I have known Jerry the King Lawler since I was a kid child.
Jay Gordon: I mean, amazing.
Kat Cosgrove: So a piece of shit, he keeps running for the mayor. He's an enormous piece of shit. He was on my family's a competition, barbecue team a couple of times too. He fucking sucks.
Austin Parker: Tremendous
Jay Gordon: garbage man,
Austin Parker: but what's my arrest. So it's, uh, so my, my wrestling connection is I live now very close to where they shot one of the, uh, anger management skits with a cane and Daniel, Bryan.
I have eaten at the colony diner where they shot one of those [00:44:00] skits anyway. No, like the, the point I'm trying to make is that. I think what, and it's the same problem that has that isn't in capture envelop. The VBB is the same problem that we have in like a lot of these things they're seeing like, okay, people hate our shit.
People aren't like into people. Aren't watching wrestling because right now WB fucking sucks and let's be realistic. Nobody fucking wants to watch fake fights in front of a bunch of people that are paid to be there. Right? Like the reason that you watch this reason you talk about this is because of the crowd.
Kat Cosgrove: Yeah. Like I would go in person, like without hesitation if normal, like fucking sure. Yeah. Hell yeah.
Jay Gordon: Fuck. Yeah. Yeah. When it comes to entertainment at this point, I would go to a man farting into a microphone at this point. So yeah,
Austin Parker: that would be hilarious
Kat Cosgrove: actually. I mean, I'll take it.
Austin Parker: Yeah, but like, so they're there, they're fixed [00:45:00] is just there.
And this is the point. Their imagination is captured by basically the past. Right. You can't break out of these. Like it's like, okay, so ratings are down. Viewership's down. Everything's fucked. We're going to do well. It's like fucking throw Shane McMahon out there and do this storyline with like an underground work shoot, fight ring.
And then also, maybe Antifa.
Kat Cosgrove: Excuse
Austin Parker: me literally. Yeah. Fucking segment last night where they're like, yeah, we got this. We're like at the beginning of the show, like the lights start going out and like, shit is knocked over and it's like technical difficulties. And then later in the show, they're like, we have the security camera footage.
We're a bunch of dudes in black with like masks on our outside throwing Molotov cocktails and a power generator.
Kat Cosgrove: Do I need to get tour's light drunk and watch this later.
Austin Parker: I'm never gonna, I'm not gonna tell anyone to [00:46:00] watch w um,
Jay Gordon: it was just, it looked like,
Kat Cosgrove: so
Jay Gordon: I understand that the WWE. Has had a problem with how to actually present their product.
I've like I've walked one or two things and it looked really ridiculous cause it's empty studios. Yeah. And then basically having a bunch of Jaguars like it behind glass, like hit the glass at and yell, like it's like a hockey game. And so I understand click the challenge they have, but what they did look like.
Essentially, they spent 50 bucks and, and, and said, fuck it, mask off. Do whatever you want. Who gives a shit?
Austin Parker: Yeah. So this is the thing, right? Like their, their imagination is captured. Like they are basically, they can't do anything new fundamentally. They can't do [00:47:00] new things. They have to kind of go back to this well of like.
B being trapped, almost in the decisions that came before. And I think this is kind of the problem that we have a lot of times about talking to somebody new is that like, we're not trying to rebuild a world that looks like the same one, except like, Oh, now there's more. You know, women CEOs, it's like, we're trying to build a world where like justice and equity and things like that are actually something that is respected and something that is part of it.
Like we're trying to build a world that is fundamentally incompatible with capitalism and the organization of our society around like making money and shit
Kat Cosgrove: was required to being aggressively intolerant of anything that flies in the face of that. Like. People who beat the shit out of their girlfriends.
Austin Parker: Right. And I think when you, maybe when you talk to people that are from another, you know, even go back to the European thing, right? If you talk to people who are from another country, where there is like maybe a slightly higher level of trust and institutions or higher [00:48:00] level of God,
Kat Cosgrove: This looks absurd.
I'm already mad.
Jay Gordon: I just put it on what we have is Shane McMahon. And if you don't know
Austin Parker: a fucking year, because this dude around,
Jay Gordon: so it's like Bobo fight club only way to kind of
Austin Parker: wait, why watch Whitney? This is like the worst work shoot ever. Like, yeah.
Jay Gordon: I mean,
Kat Cosgrove: yeah. And the shaky camera choreography from fucking like
Austin Parker: someone did the numbers, there were 79 camera cuts across like.
All of, they did like four of these little segments and they were like five minutes, a piece seven 99 camera
Jay Gordon: cuts. So the fall thing,
Austin Parker: I got to find that she thought the thing is like, yeah, [00:49:00] they have this fucking security footage of people like throwing Molotov, cocktails and shit in there. And the only reason we're saying Antifa, cause they didn't actually resolve any of this last night.
But they basically came out with a, they week to their own dirt sheets dudes. It's like, Oh, we're, we're introducing a new faction and it's nonpolitical, um,
Kat Cosgrove: political. Okay. First of all, nothing is not. So you could just shut the fuck up without
Austin Parker: argument. Well, just look at this though, like,
Jay Gordon: I guess, so I heard about this,
Austin Parker: so yeah.
So a bunch of dudes like that, black hoodies,
Kat Cosgrove: how many anti Fez does it set? Take 10
Jay Gordon: and Jane a generator. And they're like, they're kind of just, it looked like ninjas
Kat Cosgrove: and they just like me telling you
Austin Parker: what they probably are, the ninjas
Kat Cosgrove: football game and run off.
Austin Parker: So I also have to probably tell you, like, so maybe [00:50:00] helps to understand that there's also like a faction of parking lot. There are actually two factions of parking lot ninjas and the WWE right now.
Jay Gordon: Oh, wow. Fuck
Austin Parker: really fucking going for it.
Kat Cosgrove: That said,
Jay Gordon: what the fuck.
Austin Parker: Look, we all have our hobbies.
Kat Cosgrove: Well, this, you know, you're, you're right. I'm really into eSports and my Twitter timeline. Doesn't want to hear about that shit, but they do anyway.
Austin Parker: Talk about wrestling that looks right now. Pretty good. I will say all of the wrestling.
Uh, when did the nights on T and D it's incredibly fucking I'm the Oxys sometimes because the, like, it's just like, Oh my God, stop going for like cheap nostalgia and like, and shit like that all the time, but it's actually pretty good. And I think you'd be hard pressed to say that it's not better than [00:51:00] WWE.
Kat Cosgrove: I did. I kicked a wrestling class in January. But then I was going to continue with that. I was totally going to keep doing this, but then, you know, if I, man,
Austin Parker: that's,
Jay Gordon: what's this, what, what is with this?
Kat Cosgrove: they had dancing girls instead of the like,
Jay Gordon: is there now I'm just going to be honest, if they're strippers and they got jobs. Hell. Yeah,
Austin Parker: everyone here has a job.
Jay Gordon: I know, like, I, I think back to like the godfather and all the strippers that got jobs at the time or porn girls that got jobs and, and it's good for them. So if these women were actual strippers that got jobs on WWE, like,
Austin Parker: I mean,
Jay Gordon: good for them.
Kat Cosgrove: It's probably not paying as well. I used to bartend at a strip club and this, this is probably not paying as well.
Austin Parker: Probably just like,
Jay Gordon: I mean, I know in [00:52:00] a strippers at this point that are unemployed, that like, Any kind of thing. That'll get them them some more tension. Fuck. Yeah, go for it. Yeah. And, and, and you know what, um, I want to say there was a big March here in New York, this past weekend for, uh, black, uh, sex workers and blacks trans sex workers.
Austin Parker: then.
Jay Gordon: It was really, really big. I have a friend that was there and she told me about like the really, really great talks, but the fact that like sex workers have a community to take care of them right now. Um, I know some people, yeah. I know some people out in, uh, the swamp, Brooklyn community. They are taking care of their people.
And if you're a worker, I gotta be honest with [00:53:00] you. Whether you belong to a union, you belong to like anything. If you're a worker, you got to know sex workers deserve our respect, attention and support in this time.
Kat Cosgrove: Yeah. It's where it's a fucking job. It should be legal. It's a fucking job.
Austin Parker: It's working work sucks.
Kat Cosgrove: Yeah. It's all something weird about it. Like as a community, I got, I have multiple, like very close friends who are sex workers and it's like, they're, they're normal fucking people, man. I should say. Right? Like a lot like a lie.
Jay Gordon: I'll tell you one thing. I know some, um, Incredible people who are sex workers, whether they are an Oli fans or they are escorts, or they work at strip clubs.
I'm very, very lucky that I've met some wonderful people and yeah, it doesn't matter what your judgments of there. Their work [00:54:00] are, they are wonderful people and they deserve as, um, people who support workers on the left. They, they deserve your respect and, and, and support.
Austin Parker: Yes. It's harder than writing.
Kat Cosgrove: Goaling
Jay Gordon: fuck. Yeah. If you're, if you, if you work in technology and you're right, you consider yourself a quote unquote leftist. If you don't support people that, that work in sex work, you might as well just say you don't really, like, you're not really a leftist, you're just kind of performative. And I think you got to support all people who are workers.
It's part of what you do you is as being a leftist is, is essentially saying if you do a job is, is literally work. You deserve the support of other people that do what we do. And yeah, sure. The three of us work at quote unquote, major corporations and we work in [00:55:00] technology, but that doesn't mean that we can't fucking support people.
Like, you know, my wife works for like the biggest union in this fucking city. I'll be honest with you. I'm very, very lucky that I took her union insurance. I took her union influence it to my. Existence. And it taught me a whole fucking Ojai. And I will say one thing that, um, if you work in tech and you can recognize workers of other places in other, just be supportive,
Kat Cosgrove: honestly, I think tech workers should unionize we've we've gotten, we fell in into this place where like the think.
Thank you, Austin. Thank you for the applause. We should fucking unit unionize. Which we should fucking unionized. I don't know about y'all, but women get taken advantage of a lot. And the, like the cultural weirdness around talking about her salary has resulted in a lot of people being like radically [00:56:00] underpaid.
Uh, and we, I, there's a lot of pressure in the tech industry to work really, really, really long hours. And it's super fun, Jenny. And
Austin Parker: mostly on people like women, people that are people of color, junior employees, things like,
Kat Cosgrove: yeah.
Jay Gordon: You go to a shitty bootcamp companies that, um, are. Run by guys, name Austin that they take advantage of you and that make you pay a whole bunch of money.
Kat Cosgrove: I have a lot of complaints about some boot camps. Uh, I went to a bootcamp. I showed up with a distinct advantage. My dad's an engineer. I grew up around it. Uh, I was already like a freelance web developer when I went to a boot camp, but. Well, my bootcamp was good, but I did a shit load of research of, uh, all of the bootcamps, [00:57:00] um, available to me in Seattle.
Uh, I don't mind. I, I went to code fellows and I got a fantastic education and, um, I I'm happy with the money I spent. I also had a scholarship because I'm a woman and they offer. Very significant scholarships for, uh, underrepresented minorities in tech, but there are absolutely a shitload of like basically do GRI farm.
Austin Parker: Yeah.
Kat Cosgrove: That turn out. Not a whole lot. Like Ian Coldwater also went to a boot camp.
Austin Parker: Yeah, they do. Great.
Jay Gordon: Yeah. There are some that are great, but there have been a what I'm just saying. There's some. Pretty thorough.
Kat Cosgrove: There's, there's some
Austin Parker: chance to it close the circle on this. Like, I think one of the things about unions about like workers banding together and having like rights and collectively bargaining is that, you know, if you're you're listening to this and you're saying like, well, [00:58:00] I'm, I'm worried about due process and I'm worried about the court of public opinion.
Like that's what unions are for peeps about process. Like, trust me, unions love nothing more than fucking me.
Jay Gordon: You know what I really think. I think the next time we do this, we should find someone from that Kickstarter union and see if it here. So I'll do some work this week or, and I'll, I'll ask you to, um, maybe we can find some more from there, but anyway, I really would like to kind of.
Close this up from the first one, because I'll be honest with you. Yeah, I gotta get back on Twitter, man. I got to find out what Louise is up to. She may be mad at me. I don't know. Um, I just want to say, I think this is a really cool opportunity and maybe we can do this again very, very soon too. Um, Kind of bullshit about the [00:59:00] things that really are going on right now that aren't just about it's, it's more than necessarily Ching into surfers.
It's more than compiling code. It's more than that. The world in front of us, it's, it's about the ideas of kind of bringing us together and doing something fucking interesting. So I love talking to you too.
Austin Parker: Yeah, totally.
Kat Cosgrove: It's good times. It's good times. Especially since I get to, you know, bully a captive audience who are listening to this and they have no choice, but to listen to me, yell at them,
Jay Gordon: can't we all just
Austin Parker: have to like some people we, yeah,
Jay Gordon: cat.
We're just all your fin. Dom's were the best. That's really what it comes down to
Kat Cosgrove: in the end.
Jay Gordon: We're all preparing. We're all pretended preparing to be your fin dogs. We're all, we're all your pay pigs. We were just in your world anyway. Um, I really [01:00:00] wanted, yeah, I, as I give great content,
Austin Parker: fantastic content.
This is why we
Jay Gordon: did this shit. Isn't it?
Austin Parker: Um,
Kat Cosgrove: good. Is it not? I thought that was the whole like point. So if anybody wants to send me money, I'm just at Cosgrave on Venmo and then I'll, I'll Cyberball you on Twitter. So,
Austin Parker: um, I'm going to work.
Jay Gordon: You can just randomly cyber bully me personally,
Austin Parker: tremor code FSC. K D.
Jay Gordon: I may not, I don't have that kind of sub energy, but if it's cat, I'll just take it anyway. If you want to get in touch with it's at fist pod, F a C K D. Um, it could really work out to this being stupid and continuing to do this if, uh, I think if you want to be part of it, um, send us a message we'd love to hear from you.
Uh, I think it'd be really cool to hear from some of you and, um, [01:01:00] more than anything. Um, thank you cat for having that hairdo. I love it.
Kat Cosgrove: Yeah, no problem. It's actually deceptively long. I wear it in a bun all the time. So people don't don't realize it. My, my, the lady who does my eyelashes just found out I have long hair, cause it's always in a bun, but it's actually like dummy long.
Jay Gordon: I love it. Anyway. Um, to, to just
Austin Parker: close up everything,
Jay Gordon: I hope we destroy 2000 years of culture and, and figure out a better way to do it next time. Um, Austin, you rule. Okay, we'll catch you all next time. Thank you.
Kat Cosgrove: Fuck.
Austin Parker: Fuck.
Jay Gordon: 12 of 12.